VNN Editorial - Debating Mayavadis and Voidists

The online debate between Tridandi Swami Bhakti Ananda Goswami (of the WVA Interfaith Committee) and a group of Mayavadis and Voidists has heated-up. The research Site, which initiated the debate between Bhakti Ananda Goswami and over 100 Esotericists, Mayavadis and Voidist Buddhists, has been receiving a lot of positive feed-back about the debate, and some threats as well. The debate was started with an invitation to Bhakti Ananda Goswami from the "Esoteric and Science News" Site at the University of Vienna, Edited by Dr. Raphael Vishanu. http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9. Bhakti Ananda Swami was invited to prove his claim that the Theosophical Society and related 'ascended masters' channeling groups were appropriating and atheistically misrepresenting elements of the Monotheistic Bhakti Tradition of the Vedic Vaishnava Scriptures. Swami claimed that he could prove the genealogy of the Theosophical Society's teachings, and that its so-called "Mahatmas" were a literary fraud. He charged the Theosophical founders with dishonestly mis-using Theistic Scriptures, like the Vaishnava Puranas, to teach impersonalism and voidism.

Over the past month, Vaishnava Historian of Religion, HH Bhakti Ananda Goswami, and Research Site Editor Dr. Raphael Vishanu have been slandered and threatened by angry Occultists, Mayavadis and Voidist Buddhists. This has occurred as a result of Dr, Vishanu's and Bhakti Ananda Goswami's successful efforts to expose the fraud, deceptions, atheism, racism and other corruptions of the founders of the Theosophical Society and related Euro-Aryanist occult societies.

Frustrated due to having the frauds and abuses of their founders and leaders exposed, some fanatical Occultists and atheistic Aryanists are now debasing themselves further by making personal attacks on Dr. Vishanu and Bhakti Ananda Goswami.

There is also a possibility that third-party sites allowing such attacks to be posted, may be liable for the effects of their content. Relative to this problem," Graham Hancock and the Editor of the Robert Bauval website, (a member of the Theosophical Society) have been named in steps towards legal proceedings in the UK", a correspondent reported today.

Dr. Vishanu has reported that in the last 24 hours there has been even more abstruse disinformation, with the object of attacking particularly the Esoteric and Science News Site. One of the bits of ridiculous disinformation which has been spread by Theosophists is that HH Bhakti Ananda Goswami does not exist, except as a literary devise of Dr. Vishanu or some other scholar named Brian Muehlbach at the Esoteric and Science News Site ! Accusations that Bhakti Ananda Goswami was an imposter or one of the other Scholars on the EASN site began more than a month ago.

Dr, Vishanu said "Is this because "Esoteric and Science News" (famous by now for its accurate reporting about pseudoscientific claims) brings clarity to certain areas where some do not want clarity? Namely, the reason sited by our correspondent for the attack on "Esoteric and Science News", including the death threats as of late, is that we "reveal too much" and some people who make millions of dollars selling crackpot theories in the form of hardback books therefore have become nervous."

The Site is a non-religious site, which posts esoteric and science news, challenging papers and debates by persons of different, often opposing opinions. Thus it may post an atheist's paper one day and something from a theist the next. Its main focus is the history of ideas. Bhakti Ananda Goswami became involved with the site, due to his interest in its excellent (the world's best) long-running series on the history of Theosophy, and related groups. After corresponding for some time with the Site about his own studies of Theosophy and Mayavadi Occult Euro-American Aryanism, He was invited to participate in a public debate on the subject. This debate has gone on now for over a month, and excerpts from it can be read on several Vaishnava sites. The URLs for these are listed below, followed by URLs for some of the debate pages with Bhakti Ananda's writing on the Esoteric and Science News Site, and its new sister site (Esoteric and Pseudo-Science), now devoted exclusively to the Theosophy-related debate topics.

Below is the most recent exchange between Dr.Vishanu and Bhakti Ananda Goswami, which is posted on the new sister Site of the Esoteric and Science News Site, where the debate began.

BA G: It is clear that some people want to cause you pain. They tried to hurt me too, by dragging irrelevant personal information (twice) into the debate, and saying I was a crack-head, a dugpa (Tibetan black-magician),or a Ma Mo Chohan (dark, evil demigod) worshiper etc., and trying to discredit me as knowledgeable about Hinduism, Buddhism or occultism. When they have no real ability to answer your questions or charges, then they apparently will stoop to personally violating the contributors to this web site with character assassination and aggressive hunting-down and false identity campaigns.

Being a truth-speaker makes one a target of liars and cheaters / exploiters.

Not only did I personally experience the irrationality, fanaticism and hostility of true-believer Theosophists, bogus Theosophical Society ‘catholic church’ people, ‘Ascended Masters’ channeling groups, and the adherents of related esoteric belief systems, but I spent many hours hearing the horror stories of former members of these groups. While one may tend to see these groups as being very different from one another, they are all really quite monotonously the same, both at the core of their occult Mayavadi Theosophical, Masonic and Rosicrucian related teachings, and in the way that they perceive the world and their place in it. They also use the same strategies and tactics to attract, recruit and keep members, and to get rid of persons who question their authority or who promote forbidden inquiry within the ranks of the faithful. These groups all attract the same several kinds of people, and have the same effect on their members over time. They don’t really grow very fast in a sustained way over time, because of the large number of ‘burned’, ‘fried’ disaffected persons who leave them. Essentially the core membership is like a kind of parasite that draws life from the constant stream of new recruits, sucks them dry and discards them. Those core 'true believers' who stay, have to become parasites themselves, and they have to regard the discarded former members as enemies or non-entities. This is the common way that esoteric groups function. Theirs’ is a bunker-mentality of an us-against-the-world elitism.

Editor: Throughout your recent exchange with the Theosophists, did you find that some of their leaders asked questions and made comments without seeming to have any real interest in your answers or observations? They had an opportunity for some new learning with access to an expert in an area of their supposed interest, but instead of taking advantage of the opportunity, they postured themselves as Hindu and Buddhist experts, and closed-ranks to actually attack your credibility. Why do you think that they did this, and have you experienced Theosophists doing this same thing before? Does Theosophy promote a fundamentalist exclusivistic bunker-mentality when it comes to the testimony of any kind of 'outside' authorities or experts?

BA G: In my graduate work travel-study in 1982, I met with Theosophists (and the theosophists in their orbit), in Portland Oregon, in Japan, from Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan, in Sri Lanka, in India and in Nepal, from Kenya, South Africa (and other nations at major conferences I attended), in Greece, from Germany, France, Great Britain, and in New York and California. It was basically the same thing everywhere. New members to the Theosophical Society (or its spin-off Ascended Masters channeling groups), were enjoying a ‘honeymoon’ of idealism as they were being romanced by the true-believers of the organization. Once in the web of the system’s ‘occult’ authority, if they perceived the danger and struggled to free themselves, they were generally subjected to an inquisition. If this did not result in their surrender to the absolute authority of the ‘Masters’, then they were cast into ‘outer darkness’, so to speak, and diabolized. Thus Theosophical Society (etc.) ‘fringies’ (those on the fringe) tended to be only new comers and never former members, such former members being glad to have escaped, and considered by the group to be betrayers of the worst kind.

When I recently came onto the first theosophical egroup, some of my critical views had already been posted on Esoteric and Science News. So I was already perceived as an adversary by the more fanatical members there. As a result it would have been meaningless to speak in solicitous Theosophical jargon with the members there, as I was already present there as an adversary. I would not have wanted to be duplicitous in any event. I have always been outspoken about the pathologies of occultism, impersonalism and voidism. As such, I did not expect that the Theosophical 'fundamentalists' there would really be able to appreciate anything that I had to contribute. In fact, they dismissed me as a promoter of MA MO 'dark' Chohan worship ! Theosophy teaches that the personal 'gods' of the Bhakti Traditions are actually MA MO CHOHANS, which they define as malevolent dark mayavic beings who oppose their Theosophical Lords of Light ! These Ma Mo Chohans include all of the 'personal gods' of the Hindus !

In the past, when I initially met various Theosophy related groups, they were generally eager to exploit my knowledge for their benefit, but as soon as it was perceived that I was not a BELIEVER in their doctrines, I was treated as an enemy.

Sane people have a basic self-honesty, called humbleness or humility, which allows them to accept and treasure their own unique finite-ness. Human babies are self-centered / autistic, and the developmental process is one of growth from autism (experiencing one's self to be the only being existent) to being a humble, mature other-centered person capable of real love. Persons who are arrested in this developmental process remain autistic. When such persons are 'high functioning' and have powerful personalities, they become the centers of Mayavadi religious cults. Essentially they are able to convince others that they are God / the all. They are convincing, because they actually believe it. They are suffering from either arrested development, and a personality disorder from some environmental influences (nurture), or from a more serious form of neurological damage (or disorder) autism, caused by some kind of organic disease / condition (nature). In either case this autism is readily apparent in the abusive self-centered mayavadi gurus of all of the world.

BA G: I do not initiate disciples, and I describe myself only as a Vaishnava (generic term), and generally down-play my lineage, so as to be humble and non-threatening to those of other lineages. I want to promote the cooperation of equals, not to achieve dominance of my lineage over others through 'ecumenical' leadership. The only reason that I have made biographical information about myself public, is because people have a right to know what my qualifications are for speaking on any particular subject.

Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a major tradition in India with an august intellectual reputation. It also has multi-millions of actual members, with an influence on hundreds of millions. Thus in world encyclopedias, Madhva, Caitanya, Ramanuja, Nimbarka and Vallabha, with the Alvar saints, are the most commonly mentioned leaders of Vaishnavism. My lineage is through Madhva and Caitanya, the 'Gaudiya Avatara' of Bengal, whose teachings were in the line of Madhvacarya.

I am trying to promote ecumenism between the lineages, and between Vaishnavism and the world's other historically related and compatible Bhakti traditions.

Editor: Since our time today is a bit short, we have agreed to continue our conversation in a few days, but would you like to say something in conclusion today?

BA G: In conclusion, Theosophy and related thought systems do promote a fundamentalist exclusivistic bunker-mentality, when it comes to the testimony of any kind of 'outside' authorities or experts. Being a follower of their bogus Ascended Masters, alone confers credibility with the Theosophical 'chelas'. Their Mahatmas / Masters are the final authority on everything material and 'spiritual' and to question this authority is considered blasphemy. One might say that 'exoterically' Theosophy teaches free and open inquiry, but esoterically it teaches absolute submission to their non-existent Masters. Their Masters' interpretation of world history and religions is the final word on everything. Thus they reject every authentic Guru Shastra and Sadhu interpretation of the Vaishnava Bhakti Shastras, and accept only their Ascended Masters' atheistic Mayavadi and Voidist Buddhist interpretations of the same.

I would also like to mention that I posted the following today on the Blavatskiana group, where I am currently still a member as of (Febr. 6, 2003):

"Daniel Caldwell referred to something that I wrote on the Esoteric and Science News (EASN) site. It appeared there, because I sent it there. So far everything of mine used on the EASN site has been used there with my permission. Sometimes something that I have written has been sent back to me with questions inserted. This kind of dialogue may result in my editing and adding to the piece to provide new, expanded or clarified answers. Thus this kind of question-and-answer chat ends up as an interview / discussion when posted on-line.

Because of illness it is difficult for me to write anything these days, so, I generally give permission for anyone to excerpt things from my interviews, and spread them around, as long as the meaning is not changed, and the source is identified.

Portions of the debate, which began on the Esoteric and Science News Site, and was on carried-on on to two theosophical study groups

There have been many contributions to the debate from other scholars, including Dr. Vishanu. Below, marked BA G. are exchanges with contributions from Bhakti Ananda Goswami.

1-B: The Invention of Hinduism and Buddhism BA G

2-A The Secret Doctrine BA G

2-B And a Political Esoteric Connection? BA G

http://www.saragrahi.org/columns/one/stanzas_of_dzyan2.htm BA G

http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/theosdebate.html BA G

http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/theosdebate2.html BA G

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/lettersed.html BA G

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/resp.html BA G

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/austrab.html BA G

http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/austr.html BA G