VNN Editorial - Reply To Mother Malati's Letter

EDITORIAL

March 3, 2000 VNN5603 Related VNN StoriesComment on this storyAbout the AuthorOther Stories by this Author

Reply To Mother Malati's Letter

BY MAHAVEGAVATI DASI

EDITORIAL, Mar 3 (VNN) — Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, to the Vaisnava acaryas, and to the present Vaisnavas. PAMFO.

I read Malati's letter to Praghosa prabhu posted on VNN, "Senior or Senile." As the old saying goes, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." I quote this with relation to the title itself and the content.

First of all, I lived in New Vrndavan where Malati was GBC, and later in Columbus where I went because Mother Malati insisted that I should come despite my telling her that I did not think it a good idea my going to live there due to her previous affronts to me. (I finally agreed to "give it a try.")

“Practice AND TEACH the Vaisnava philosophy and women WILL be automatically protected. ”

I will not get into all the details of Malati's behavior as I feel there is no need to address all of these unpleasantries, but consider the letter written to Praghosh prabhu, I feel that something should be said to give some example of Mother Malati's character since she has written this letter.

Just to give some example, Mother Malati would quite often call me into her office and scream at me, making false accusations to me based on hearsay - "X said that you said..." and she would point her index finger in my face while screaming at me. Despite my telling that I had not said such a thing, and telling her to bring in the person whose name she was using in her accusations, as they were present at that time in the ashram and could have been brought into the discussion, (and thus I felt that things could get cleared up, finding out where the misunderstanding had come from), Malati would NEVER do that. Instead she would continue in her attack like a RAGING crazy woman, all the while pointing her finger in my face.

(My question always was, "Is this behavior of hers due to the aids or is this simply a part of her personality'" And I would just let her scream on and I would tolerate it.) It was completely insane. (Talk about a leader being repressive and abusive to devotees who a leader considers to be "under" them - not under their jurisdiction, but under THEM.)

Sometimes while dressing the Deities, Mother Malati would become very angry when one of the devotees was going too slowly, or had not gotten out the proper outfit, or did not have the paraphernalia ready. At times she would become so angry that on some occasions she had even thrown the Deities' clothing and screamed at the devotee(s), right in the Deities' presence. On Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur's disappearance day, while singing the pranams to him, Mother Malati not hearing correctly that the devotees were properly repeating what she was chanting, started chastising the devotees for not singing the words properly. She stopped the kirtan and started yelling at the devotees, "Open your ears and start hearing. Then use your mouths properly and sing the words that I am singing. Stop singing something else." And she talked the words "Nama om visnu padaya... Srimate BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI..." (ALL of the devotee present were just looking at one another with a "Huh'") On quite a number occasions, Mother Malati has stopped Mangal Arotike right in the middle of the chanting to start chastising, (screaming at), someone for playing the kartals out of beat or for something else. (I just felt it to be so soul shattering to start one's day off in the morning like that, that I just stopped coming to Mangal Arotike. (I figured it was better to chant extra rounds and have a more peaceful start of the morning, than to go to Mangal Arotike and start the day off with someone screaming as loudly and intensely as she could.) So is this behavior normal' (And Mother Malati is questioning Praghosa' - "Senior or Senile'")

OK, no need to go into more of this. (I am just trying to give a little background information on Mother Malati who has written this letter to Praghosa prabhu.)

I know both Praghosa prabhu and Mother Malati, and if given the choice, I would take Praghosa's association way before I would take that of Mother Malati, (and I do not mean as husband either). Although I do not agree with what Praghosa prabhu says all of the time, at least he is a gentleman about it. A bit passionate, yes, but a gentleman nonetheless. (Incidentally, brahmins fight with words, and philosophical discussions can get very intense sometimes. What to speak about a discussion when it comes to one's Guru Maharaj being blasphemed and one's feeling that his mission is not being properly protected or represented by the very body of devotees that Srila Prabhupada set up to protect his mission and represent him.)

Mother Malati can also be very passionate when it comes to her disagreeing with someone. From my personal experience I have seen her fly off the handle with her passion, where she acts neither as a lady or a gentleman. She PULLS her position, (like so many other GBC people), AND - what she considers - her "seniority" over devotees who she considers junior to her, despite her leaving for so many years and even blaspheming Srila Prabhupada when she left. Krsna forbid that someone, who Mother Malati considers junior to her, (INCLUDING her Godsisters and Godbrothers), should disagree with her. WATCH OUT!!! You got one IRATE lady on your hands. OOh dee doo!

I DO give her credit though for her honestly relating to devotees her past when she left, when she decides to speak about these things, although she does not admit to her blaspheming Srila Prabhupada while she was "out there." (I had the experience of interacting with Mother Malati in 1987 when I was doing kirtan and prasadam distribution in Thomkins Square Park at night, and my discovering that the lady staring blankly before me, (being totally stoned out), was my Godsister who had served Srila Prabhupada so closely.

So I would speak to her and Prthuputra prabhu, (her husband), and I would get her involved in kirtan. I also would make sure that Mother Malati would take as much prasadam as I could possibly get her to take. (I also prayed to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna to bring her back to Their lotus feet, and continued to do so when I left for Africa.)

Praghosa prabhu IS a gentleman, and although his words to Ravindra Svarup prabhu may sound heavy to some devotees, they ARE packed with truth. The original subject brought up, (concerning the blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada), WAS, and STILL is, and issue that the GBC SHOULD have addressed. In Praghosa's letters which got posted up on VNN, (which were originally private letters), he ALWAYS referred to our Godbrother Ravindra Svarupa using "prabhu." Ravindra NEVER used that when writing to Praghosa prabhu. Rather he kept emphasizing "das" in what seemed to be a tactic of intimidation and/or condescension, as if to rub it in, "Hey Praghosa, I am the big man here, and don't you forget it little guy." Ravindra also revealed, (paraphrased), "Hey, I am also versed in Martial Arts," and from any readers' perspective, there was an implied message in the way that particular statement was written. (What WAS Ravindra prabhu's intention in this statement')

The exchanges between Praghosa and Ravindra prabhus, started off due to Srila Prabhupada's being blasphemed by Madhusudani and Dhyanakunda Matajis. First of all, the statements were presented on a COM conference which is ultimately under the jurisdiction of the GBC.

It IS the DUTY of the GBC to address such matters. It is also their duty to present the Krsna conscious philosophy properly, and they are NOT doing this. WHY are they allowing Srila Prabhupada to be blasphemed' Why do you Malati, as a GBC member NOT speak to Madhusudani about this since you and she ARE good friends. Don't you realize the implications of you and your GBC friends NOT correcting this problem'

Quoting Srila Prabhupada from his lecture on SB 1.13.15 given in Geneva on June 4,1974 with regard to the GBC doing its duty:

"So Vidura was Yamaraja. Not only he was Yamaraja, but he is one of the great authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the sastra. One of them is Yamaraja. Balir vaiyasakir vayam. This is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Yamaraja is one of the GBC of Krsna. Yes. As we have got twelve GBC's, similarly Krsna has got GBC's... That twelve men are authorized to preach Krsna consciousness. So we have to follow.

Mahajano yena gata sa panthau. Therefore we have created these GBC. So they should be very responsible men. Otherwise, they will be punished. They will be punished to become a sudra. Although Yamaraja is a GBC, but he made a little mistake. He was punished to become a sudra. So those who are GBC's, they should be very, very careful to administer the business of ISKCON. Otherwise they will be punished. As the post is very great, similarly, the punishment is also very great. That is the difficulty. You can see from this example, Vidura. He was immediately punished. He did little mistake..."

So the GBC is NOT doing its duty and Praghosa prabhu is questioning. Is there something WRONG with Praghosa prabhu's questioning why the GBC is ALLOWING Srila Prabhupada, (Praghosa's, Ravindra's, my Guru Maharaj the Guru Maharaj of ALL of the GBC members -if not diksa then siksa - AND YOUR Guru Maharaj), to be blasphemed' What is YOUR problem with Praghosa prabhu's questioning' That you are part of the GBC who is NOT doing your duty' As a PROPER disciple Praghosa prabhu SHOULD be upset to see our Guru Maharaj being blasphemed and he should be questioning when the GBC is NOT intervening, questioning and correcting such blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON, who IS their own Guru Maharaj. The GBC should be questioned when it is SO off the mark and is more like a Greedy Boy's Club - or can also be called the Great Big Cheaters - (with some women on it now), as opposed to the Governing Body Commission that it is SUPPOSED to be. (Even the Vedic kings welcomed input from their citizens. They were so concerned to see that the praja were being properly maintained that they would send their representatives out to check and report back to them.) Come on Mother Malati, WHERE is YOUR intelligence. (Or is it that you have only 50% as you quoted to Sita Mataji in your email to her submitted below.)

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 00 21:53 +0530 From: "COM: Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)" Sender: Malati.ACBSP@bbt.se To: "Sita Devi Dasi" <...gian.net> Subject: response to an old e-mail Lines: 7 X-Com-Textno: COM3039988 X-Com-Flags: LETTER MIME-Version: 1.0

[Text 3039988 from COM]

Mataji, I think you are having trouble with hallucinations. Anyone who even slightly knows me knows that this isn't even my style of speech (to wish someone "dead") nor is it my mentality. I would humbly suggest that you seek out a devotee therapist and consider some type of behavorial counseling.

Furthermore, I suggest that you spend less time gossiping. It destroys your brain tissues ( and considering that we only have 50%, we should want to hang on to as much as we can)!

Yr servant, Malati dd

(This was Mother Malati's reply to Sita Mataji's email when Sita asked Malati about something that she was told Malati had said about her. Thus HOW could Sita Mataji be "hallucinating" when she is referring to a statement which was sent to her in print')

"Date: Sat, 5 Jun 99 17:47 -0400
From: "COM: XXX (dd) ACBSP (Mayapur - IN)"
Sender: XXX.ACBSP@bbt.se
To: Sadhu@aol.com
Cc: ...gian.net
Subject: Malati's statement
Lines: 28
X-Com-Textno: COM2576184
X-Com-Flags: LETTER
MIME-Version: 1.0
[Text 2576184 from COM] Hare Krishna prabhu, please accept my humble obeissances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I was visiting Jivan Mukta prabhu and his good wife Sita a few days ago and was inquiring about the progress made by GHQ since while in India I heard some very negative statements about their views on the position of women in ISKCON.

While in Mayapur Malati definatly told Padyavali and me, in a private conversation, that she wished Sita were dead but in the same sentence she took back her words and acknowledged that she should not think in this way as a devotee. Since she took back her statement, I don't think there is a need to pursue it any further.

At this time, confrontation on this issue will leed us no where, this is my opinion. It is better to live our own lives as examples to society keeping in mind that even in our own spiritual movement there is objection to the adoption of the vedic principles.

Your servant,
XXX dd"

> I won't get into what my opinion is of the exchange between Praghosa prabhu and Ravindra, but we do have to question the efficacy of the GBC in their NOT doing anything to stop this blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada within the ISKCON society. It is also because of the disease from which this is a symptom that there are so many other problems as well in ISKCON. Ultimately due to a diseased and dyfunctioning (or almost NONfunctioning) GBC. (Or should we say, they function but in the WRONG way, and for the wrong reasons.)

Praghosa prabhu is a faithful husband and responsible father. He has six children who have never been abused or sexually molested because as a dutiful father he is protecting them. Ravindra prabhu on the other hand, although a TP, martial artist and GBC has not even been able to properly protect his own children, what to speak of so many other devotees who have been abused and who continue to suffer abuse at the hands of so-called senior devotees, "gurus" and GBCs. What protection are you giving to devotees' What about your own daughter who was being molested in ISKCON'

Malati, you say in your letter, "Pray tell me, what makes you so senior' The fact that you joined the institution chronologically prior to the men you are attacking' Surely you know that's bogus."

Although you make this statement, I know that that is not Praghosa prabhu's mentality. There is NO indication of it in his letter. He is referring to all of the OTHER senior Prabhupada disciples on the conference who were expressing their disturbance. WHAT is the problem with that' They ARE senior, and it is RIGHT that Praghosa prabhu spoke up for his Godbrothers who were voice their disturbance with their Guru Maharaj being blasphemed. ANY BONAFIDE disciple will feel this way.

(As a side note though, there IS validity in terms of Vaisnava ettiquette with regard to one's seniority being considered in terms of how when he came to the shelter of Vaisnava association. This seniority IS taken into consideration amongst bonafide Vaisnavas.

This is simply Vaisnava ettiquette. Srila Prabhupada himself took this into consideration; so did the devotees in the beginning of the movement. In other Vaisnava maths, younger Godbrothers often call their older Godbrothers, "dada," a respectful address meaning "older brother," and the ghee lamp and other items of worship are offered to seniors first. When prasadam is served, senior devotees are generally served before juniors. The Vedas teach how we should respect one another with relation to how seniors relate to juniors and vice-versa. Sadly, many of us, including you are guilty of NOT following proper ettiquette, although you are good with respecting those devotees in positions within ISKCON.

Incidentally, since you quote Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur below: When he would speak, he would insist that his senior men, (those who had come to him earlier), sit closer to him. So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur DID follow this ettiquette, and the younger Godbrothers called Kunjabihari, "dada.")

Mother Malati, you go on to say, "Funny that right there, on the same screen where your piece was posted yesterday we found this rather startling passage (by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta PRABHUPADA) which, again, leaves no doubt as of what the criterion for seniority among Vaisnavas is:" 'Gurudeva in human form, which is the best amongst of all living beings, is my only object of worship. Visible worlds are eager to worship him, but a man like me, who is averse to God, is satisfied in thinking Gurudeva to be a perfect man. Human beings, as devotees of that perfect man, are all Vaisnavas.

They are manifestations of my Gurudeva in various forms. Positively they are my guru-varga and instructors, negatively they are persons who, at the time of performing Bhajan are very much eager to hear delirium from an abominable wretched person like me.'

"So, you see prabhu, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta believes himself unqualified but you want us to swallow you seniority on the grounds you your calling yourself a "gentleman' and of your claiming you did so much service for you guru."

Hey Malati Mataji, WAKE UP. Your Guru Maharaj is being blasphemed, his purports to the scriptures questioned, and you are calling out Praghosa who is speaking up in protest of this. Is there something wrong with you' Maybe it is YOU who are senile, (or are suffering from dementia from aids.) Lord Caitanya said in CC Antya lila 7.115, "One who does not accept the svami, (husband), as an authority, I consider a prostitute." This was said in reply to Vallabha Bhatta's comments, "In my commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam I have refuted the explanations of Sridhara Svami. I cannot accept his explanations. Whatever Sridhara Svami reads he explains according to the circumstances. Therefore he is inconsistent in his explanations and cannot be accepted as an authority." So Madhusudani and others who cannot accept the purports of Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada are simply prostitutes in the words of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

You continue, "I think you could use further clues: 'One who does not admit his own scanty resources or ability can never be able to call upon others wholeheartedly."

Well Malati Mataji, we can EASILY turn this very statement around to you and our GBC Godbrothers. How many devotees - your peers and others - have all of you turned away? Do you really think that Srila Prabhupada would be pleased? Bhaktitirtha, Bir Krsna and Ravindra talk about protecting women, but WHAT have they done to protect women or anyone for that matter. WHERE are they REALLY doing it' By allowing the BGC - Big Girls Club - to go on' WHAT is theWomen's Ministry 'batting record'' What have they accomplished' What are they doing other than meeting and talking some things here and there, or going to India' What is the GBC's batting record, other than their BAD hits, and their batting so many of their Godsiblings out of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON.

I see this Women's Ministry as an EXCUSE for the GBC leaders NOT performing their prescribed duty in protecting women as well as all of the devotees. They are simply palming off their responsibility as GBCs in terms of their actively protecting the women in the movement and are instead TRYING to make it look like they are protecting women by setting up a 'Women's Ministry.' As does Praghosa prabhu and other men, I ALSO consider so many of the GBC as Demasculated. And I am speaking from the position of a woman.

Malati continues quoting: 'And: "'In fact, the spiritual master always desires that we should all in harmonious cooperation try to serve the supreme Lord.

When he used the word 'we' he did not speak particularly of any one individual. Many people motivated by their selfish interest may declare, "Only I will perform this work for others are not qualified to perform this special task." However, the spiritual master with the most compassionate frame of mind gently encourages us.

'Everybody giving up all malice should please come together and worship the Lord in unity.'"

Yes, and WHAT better way to serve the spiritual master and the Supreme Lord than by following the pure Jagat Guru's words of instruction. Harmonious cooperation does NOT mean that we simply act as a bunch of mesmerized robots following a CORRUPT and OFF the mark GBC. Canakya Pandit said, 'To be without a master is better than having an arrogant master.' And the GBC have become so arrogant that they dare to disobey Srila Prabhupada's instructions and desires, and go so far as to try to delude the devotees. And if one speaks the truth, or GBC and guru Godsiblings USE their postion to get 'rid' of the 'offender.' NOT an offender to Srila Prabhupada, but one who offends them by speaking the truth and pointing out their deviations.

Mother Malati continues, 'You tell the sannyasis to leave the protection of women to the grhastas. It seems the protection you are talking about is slightly shorter of the meaning of that which Saraswati Thakura offers. Or didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati instituted sannyasa ashram so sannyasis, on their turn, would better help the rest of us (women included) understand the purpose of our lives making thus, in the process, all of us (still women included) truly protect, but particularly men properly equipped so to protect women' Additionally, let me ask you this: Didn't you learn about how to protect your wife and daughters from Srila Prabhupada' And he was a sannyasi, wasn't he''

Yes Malati prabhu. It IS generally the business of grhasthas to protect women, especially when our sannyasis do NOT know the meaning of sannyas. Srila Narada Muni and Vasistha Muni WERE qualified to protect women because they were REAL sannyasis, and so was Srila Prabhupada. But for the MOST part, so many of the so-called sannyasis in our movement are NOT real sannyasis. (And their so-called 'protection' of women comes DOWN to the level of SUBTLE SEX LIFE at the least.) Thus, they are NOT qualified to protect women, (and so far they have NOT been able to do so properly). So better, that these 'sannyasis' and GBC persons, (including you), and so-called 'gurus' hear from those men who DO understand the scriptures, apply them properly, and KNOW how to properly protect and RESPECT women. REAL sannyasis DO know how to protect women because they SEE on the platform of BG 5.18.

They are NOT still afflicted with the material disease of lust, be it subtle or gross. Sad to say, SO MANY (if not MOST) of our GBC/sannyasi/'gurus' ARE still stuck on the bodily platform, and ARE afflicted with the desire for profit, adoration, name, fame, position, etc. They get OFF on the energy derived from their association with women. (Better to have an honest grhastha than a dishonest so-called sannyasi, 'guru' and the rest.)

Malati continues, "Speaking of sannyasis, how about some Vaisnava manners from you in relation to your sannyasi god brothers"'

Turn the question around: Malati, why don't you have some respect for Trivikram Maharaj' Why didn't you call out Bir Krsna Swami, (who is junior to Trivikram Swami), for his insulting words'

Then there is this point: REAL Vaisnava manners means to speak the truth, the VAISNAVA siddhanta, NOT some sentimental garbage. Praghosa spoke the truth. Often people, including so-called Vaisnavas do NOT like to hear the truth. (Go see Srila Prabhupada's definition of satyam in BG 10.4 purport.)

sruti smrti puranadi pancaratra vidhim vina ahantiki harer bhaktir utpatyaiva kalpate

Devotional service that IGNORES the revealed scriptures is sentimental and causes disturbance to society. And that is EXACTLY what the GBC is doing, causing disturbance to the society of devotees with their Improper application of something which is NOT what Srila Prabhupada wanted.

>From the Malati Purana, 'You claim to be their senior; do you recognize them as on a rank above yourself as far as ashram' Your words to and about them have been anything but ethical.'

If a grhastha is an honest grhastha, (meaning that he is executing his duties responsibibly as a grhastha), then yes, he IS in a rank above a DIShonest so-called 'sannyasi.' Better to be a grhastha taking care of one's legitimate wife, (or wives), than to be a 'sannyasi' taking care of a 'harem' (be they engaged in gross OR subtle sex-life).

Mother Malati speaks again, "Indeed, what you reveal of yourself through your words leads to one inevitable conclusion: the only seniority you might claim over those you addressed are years. But then, that only qualifies one for special discounts at drug stores or bus lines and little more than that, isn't it'"

I STILL have not found Praghosa's statement about his being 'senior' other than his saying that he was experienced. (And he is experienced.) As a brahmacari he acted as a good brahmacari. As a grhastha, he is acting as a proper grhastha. Can all of our other GBC mem make the same claim' (I won't go into details as I do not feel that I should be taking it upon myself to cause embarrassment to anyone here. Let's just use the example of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, (since Mother Malati quoted from him), of what he did when so many babajis tried to lay claim to Srila Gaur Kisor das Babaji Maharaja's body. After Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur's question, ALL of the babajis turned away and left.)

Mother Malati again, 'So prabhu, don't just brag about it, give us what our lives are so bereft of, BE a senior among us, please!'

I believe that Praghosa prabhu IS TRYING to do that, but you who are on the GBC will NOT allow such responsible men the responsibility that they SHOULD have. When will you 'renunciate' either renounce your 'thrones' or your other attachments to position, name, fame and the rest. Don't you see how you have caused SUCH HARM to the association of devotees'

Let's look at Praghosa prabhu's words taken from his letter, In my first comments, I pointed out a simple reality; "The men simply do not care to hear any more about what he or any GBC man "FEELS"about this ridiculously childish matter. They are only interested to know if you are indeed aware of precisely what "TUNES" are being played on the ISKCON organ, how they are indeed indicative of some serious problems and precisely WHAT AND WHEN you are going to take responsible and decisive actions to correct the problem!"

WHAT is wrong with that' It is a FACT. WHEN are our GBC people going to 'HEAR the music'' I would think that they DO hear the music, (and are pretending not to, or they are thinking that the orchestra will go away), UNLESS, due to their offenses to Srila Prabhupada and his devotees, KRSNA HIMSELF has covered their ears with deafness.

Praghosa continues, 'What would have been most beneficial for these mothers, was some very clear and unequivocal preaching by strong leaders who could and would "Open their eyes" and explain the facts of life as concerns such offensive comments about Srila Prabhupada and devotees who have been serving His Divine Grace for so many years who were merely trying to help them understand their mistake and the need to avoid replicating that error in the future! That is the meaning of "OM AJNANA TIMIRANDASYA" Yes' The husband or in his absence, the guru is duty bound to explain the truth to any such mother and if he does not, either because he is her husband and too much attached to her beauty, or he is her so-called guru and is dependent upon her loyalty and support, then the Srimad Bhagavatam describes such a husband or guru as "Effeminate"!

So WHAT is wrong with this' It is also the truth.

sach bale tomare lutha jutha jagat mohaye

When one tells lies, everyone is enchanted but when one tells the truth, he is beaten with sticks. Seems you and the GBC do NOT like hearing the truth, nor do you like the devotees who speak truthfully. (GBC seems to follow the policy of 'KICK THEM OUT.')

Praghosa again speaks, 'If you were to have responded as RAPIDLY to the requests for some deliberate and Krsna Conscious action, as regards the concerns of the senior devotees who were rightfully concerned about any offensive statements made in reference to our Srila Prabhupada, then more than likely all of this would have been resolved in a very positive and Krsna Conscious fashion, for the upliftment of each and every man and woman who was touched by all of this.'

Yes, if one takes care of a problem in the beginning, then the problem gets taken care of and it does not grow. Don't take care of it, and it gets worse. Three things must be immediately attended to: Fire, debt and disease.

There is a FIRE in ISKCON. Praghosa and others are trying to shout, 'FIRE, FIRE, FIRE. HELP! HELP! HELP! But you GBC folks WANT to sleep on while the fire (that you set') is burning. Debt' We ALL have a debt to Srila Prabhupada, and when some of us are TRYING to fulfill it, you GBC people kick us out. Disease' ISKCON has incarnated into ITS GON, or ITS A CON, or the Envious SKCON. Wake up; it IS diseased. (And if a woman can see that, then certainly so can any intelligent and responsible man.) Wake up Malati, wake up. Better to be an honest simply female devotee, than a crooked GBC or BGC, (Big Girls Club, or Bitches Greedy Club).

Praghosa continues, ' So my depiction of HH Bhir Krsna Goswami's action as being "effeminate" as you described is to the point and accurate. It was also miserably exploitative of the women themselves. Instead of helping them to avoid offending Srila Prabhupada and his own godbrothers, who actually have the "Real Interest" of these mothers in mind, he spoke very contemptuously of the concerns of men like Ameyatma prabhu, Shyamsundara prabhu an HH Trivikrama Swami, all of whom are actually senior to HH Bhir Krsna in many ways - especially HH Trivikrama Swami! To encourage contempt for the good instructions and beneficial association to be found in senior Vaisnavas, in the mind and heart of such simple hearted and easily influenced individuals as women, is I consider, an act of violence. It is a flagrant attempt to increase his stature as a shelter to the beleaguered and unprotected women of ISKCON.

That is indeed pandering or pimping as you called it - profiting from the innocence or ignorance of women. He fails to recognize, that encouraging such disrespect for devotees by casually declaring, "What's wrong with them' Are they pschologically well'" is itself a surefire symptom of his own "questionable" psychological condition! The goal of our Krsna Conscious practice is perfectly offenseless chanting of the Lord's Holy Name. Such offenseless chanting is completely impeded by "Blaspheming the very devotees who have delivered unto us that self-same Holy Name! The true spiritual interest of these or any other devotees can never be served by such misdirected pampering of their false ego, as was exhibited by HH Bhir Krsna Swami! Nor can HH Bhir Krsna Swami's real interest be served by my refraining from pointing this out to him - so as to help him also attain some day the platform of "offenselessly chanting the Holy Name of Lord Krsna"!

WHAT is wrong with Praghosa prabhu's assessments' They are CORRECT!

Again quoting from Prabhosa prabhu, "So I will excuse you this once for your childish attempt to verbally "ABUSE" myself or HH Trivikrama Swami or any of the other godbrothers and misrepresenting our sincere efforts to protect these simple but foolish women who appeared so committed to "guru apharada" under the misguided direction of men who have become habituated to ABUSING AND NEGLECTING WOMEN! I realize that " OLD HABITS DIE HARD"! But if you and HH Bhir Krsna Swami and especially Bhakti Tirtha Swami can remain humble and enthusiastic, and eager to hear from men like Jivan Mukta Prabhu or Ameyatma prabhu or myself then there is certainly hope that the two Swamis and your good self, can actually become real sannyasis and leave the "protecting of women" to responsible grhastas and can leave this business behind them once and for all!" Then become fully committed to broadcasting the Glories of the Holy Name of Lord Krsna - as they are supposed to be doing - non-stop - 24 hours per day for the genuine benefit of all of us who are happily engaged in the actual "PROTECTION" of all the Lord's devotees.

I also would have to agree. HOW have these men protected women' Right under Ravindra prabhu's nose in Philadelphia, children were being abused. His OWN children were abused in the gurukula. He KNOW of so much abuse in ITS GON. What about Bir Krsna Maharaj' What did he do for his son' What does he do now when it comes to REAL action with regards to protecting women. FIRST comes protecting Srila Prabhupada and the Vaisnava philosophy, and ALL of the rest of the REAL protection will come, (like the example that Srimad Bhagavatam gives; Water the root of the tree and all of the leaves and branches are watered. Feed the stomach, and the rest of the body is nourished.

Practice AND TEACH the Vaisnava philosophy and women WILL be automatically protected. As Srila Prabhupada himself said when asked how one could recognize a Vaisnava, 'He is a perfect gentleman.' And Bhaktitirtha Swami.' Well, you can go and read my posts. How can liars, thieves and cheaters who exploit women PROTECT them. THAT is the question.

Submitted for the scrutiny of the Vaisnavas.

Satyam eva jayate

I remain your servant,

Mahavegavati Dasi
Hare Krsna

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