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EDITORIAL February 24, 2000 VNN5542 Related VNN Stories Reply To Rabindra Swarup Prabhu BY PRAGHOSA DAS EDITORIAL, Feb 24 (VNN) — Hare Krsna Rabindra Swarup prabhu, Accept my obeisances. All Glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prahupada. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments, although I am a little surprised at your taking offense at HH Trivikrama Swami's sharing your original comments with me. We are all aspiring devotees whose only interest should be satisfaction of Guru and Krsna. Isn't it? So there is nothing to be gained by keeping such discussions as confidential talks. Although it is a fact, that what you have written thus far on this issue leaves much to be desired and thus I can understand your apparent reticence to disclose all your comments to all of your godbrothers.
As regards your most recent attempt to rebut or refute or reject, however you wish to portray it, any or all of my comments, there is much I could say. However before commenting upon any of your direct statements, it would be valuable to point out a rather glaring irony, which I believe underscores the original purpose of my writing the first comments that I sent Maharaja. In my first comments, I pointed out a simple reality; "The men simply do not care to hear any more about what he or any GBC man "FEELS" about this ridiculously childish matter. They are only interested to know if you are indeed aware of precisely what "TUNES" are being played on the ISKCON organ, how they are indeed indicative of some serious problems and precisely WHAT AND WHEN you are going to take responsible and decisive actions to correct the problem!"This I described as the problem that had the devotees so concerned. You responded essentially that, as much as the devotees were interested in a swift, simple and deliberate solution - some action - as it were, in your estimation such a RAPID response risked more potential harm than good. You implied that the only approach suggested to the situation was the calling for "the witches" to be removed from COM and taken out and burned! Personally I have not heard of anyone calling for such drastic measures you have implied in your most recent contribution to this discussion; "I am criticized for not coming up with a "solution" and for failing to do what some are convinced is the necessary immediate step, namely, the >removal of certain women devotees from COM."But the glaring irony I mention should be obvious to everyone, including yourself prabhu. If you were to have responded as RAPIDLY to the requests for some deliberate and Krsna Conscious action, as regards the concerns of the senior devotees who were rightfully concerned about any offensive statements made in reference to our Srila Prabhupada, then more than likely all of this would have been resolved in a very positive and Krsna Conscious fashion, for the upliftment of each and every man and woman who was touched by all of this. After all, you yourself admitted great ambivalence as regards the comments of the Matajis in question, stating very clearly; "On the other hand, I can sympathize deeply with his feelings of helpless, "my inability to do anything to defend Srila Prabhupada's honor and protect his ISKCON." I also feel frustrated.So in your own defense and the defense of those whom you percieved to have been slighted, you immediately POUNCED! But in the defense of Srila Prabhupada and the sensitivity of senior devotees who expressed their very real dissatisfaction with the situation - you appeared to ignore, delay and ultimately ridicule their call for a more comprehensive approach that would put an end to the problem! The disparity between your reponses is and should be embarrassing. The devotees who expressed their faithlessness in the transcendental position of Srila Prabhupada deserved better than what they received. As did the senior devotees who attempted to help them. That's all! Now as far as the rest of your letter - what can I say? It appears that based upon my pointing out your insistence on expressing your "feelings" about the entire matter, as opposed to simply DOING the needful etc, as well as my taking HH Bhir Krsna Swami to task for his behavior, you took great issue with my comments and took it upon yourself to engage in some psychoanalysis of myself. As far as my comments about your emphasis upon your feelings as opposed to your actions - reread them and see the value in them. If you choose to describe my comments as indicative of a "FALSE SENSE OF MASCULINITY" as opposed to seeing my comments as the healthy perception of what is preventing you from RAPIDLY resolving this or any problem, you are certainly free to do so. Those who are impartial however will I doubt, share your view of my description of the situation. If they do then what can I say? As far as my comments about HH BhirKrsna Swami's very offensive comments to Mother Madhusudani Radha and your rejection of my implication that these comments are indicative of an "effeminate wimp" as you described it, I was not quite as complete or thorough as I could have or should have been. I believe you objected to my description of this, as the behavior of one who is "pandering" or as you chose to define it "pimping" for the ladies. Well again I will submit that you have directly hit the nail on the head with that one. Thank You. That is a most accurate depiction of his action. What would have been most beneficial for these mothers, was some very clear and unequivocal preaching by strong leaders who could and would "Open their eyes" and explain the facts of life as concerns such offensive comments about Srila Prabhupada and devotees who have been serving His Divine Grace for so many years who were merely trying to help them understand their mistake and the need to avoid replicating that error in the future! That is the meaning of "OM AJNANA TIMIRANDASYA" Yes? The husband or in his absence, the guru is duty bound to explain the truth to any such mother and if he does not, either because he is her husband and too much attached to her beauty, or he is her so-called guru and is dependent upon her loyalty and support, then the Srimad Bhagavatam describes such a husband or guru as "Effeminate"! In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.26.23 Srila Prabhupada utilizes this exact word. " An effeminate husband, simply being attracted by the external beauty of his wife, tries to become her obedient servant." and in the Bhagavad Gita 16.1-3 Srila Prabhupada comments in his wonderful purport, "The theory that there no need for austerity in life, that one can go on SPECULATING and everything will be nice, is neither recommended in the Vedas nor in the Bhagavad Gita. Such theories are manufactured by SHOWBOTTLE SPIRITUALISTS who are trying to gather more followers.If there are restrictions, rules and regulations, people will not be attracted. Therefore those who want followers in the name of religion, just to have a show only, don't restrict the lives of their students, nor their own lives. But that method is not approved by the Vedas." So my depiction of HH Bhir Krsna Goswami's action as being "effeminate" as you described is to the point and accurate. It was also miserably exploitative of the women themselves. Instead of helping them to avoid offending Srila Prabhupada and his own godbrothers, who actually have the "Real Interest" of these mothers in mind, he spoke very contemptuously of the concerns of men like Ameyatma prabhu, Shyamsundara prabhu an HH Trivikrama Swami, all of whom are actually senior to HH Bhir Krsna in many ways - especially HH Trivikrama Swami! To encourage contempt for the good instructions and beneficial association to be found in senior Vaisnavas, in the mind and heart of such simple hearted and easily influenced individuals as women, is I consider, an act of violence. It is a flagrant attempt to increase his stature as a shelter to the beleaguered and unprotected women of ISKCON. That is indeed pandering or pimping as you called it - profiting from the innocence or ignorance of women. He fails to recognize, that encouraging such disrespect for devotees by casually declaring, "What's wrong with them? Are they pschologically well?" is itself a surefire symptom of his own "questionable" psychological condition! The goal of our Krsna Conscious practice is perfectly offenseless chanting of the Lord's Holy Name. Such offenseless chanting is completely impeded by "Blaspheming the very devotees who have delivered unto us that self-same Holy Name! The true spiritual interest of these or any other devotees can never be served by such misdirected pampering of their false ego, as was exhibited by HH Bhir Krsna Swami! Nor can HH Bhir Krsna Swami's real interest be served by my refraining from pointing this out to him - so as to help him also attain some day the platform of "offenselessly chanting the Holy Name of Lord Krsna"! So if my taking the trouble to point this out to you, as your very experienced godbrother, and you turn it into an opportunity to make a show of some mundane knowledge of psychology and it's various descriptive terms and stated symptoms - who can stop you? Does that make your anaysis correct or even relevant. It's doubtful and it matters little to me what you think about that. And truth be told I would find it hard to believe that your particular slant on my specific "problems" would be shared by many who actually know me and value my association and the opportunity to work with me! Most men and women I have worked with over the years would indeed flat out reject your attempt to depict me as something other than a "consumate gentleman", straightforward - yes, blunt - at times, but never anything less than a gentleman. In fact it is in my willingness to speak with you as forthrightly as I am, that actually establishes me as a gentleman. And someday in the future perhaps, these mothers will come to recognize the value of any devotee's association who is as "to the point and undistracted" by the type of blarney you are presently dishing out in an effort to avoid the TRUTH! Now I have other concerns with your paper as well and we should perhaps mention a couple. Your casual slander of devotees like Ameyatma and Shyamsundara prabhus, I find particularly repellent. Surely, one who has been chanting HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE for as many years as your good self, should know better than to make such silly statements about men of such stature in Srila Prabhupada's service? Your statement; "It seems that our Trivikrama Swami may have become the victim of some bad association, in that he is keeping loose company with the likes of Praghosa dasa (ACBSP), Shyamasundara dasa, Ameyatma dasa, and others, and even puts one of them forward as his spokesman."KEEPING LOOSE COMPANY? Is that how you refer to all devotees who inquisitively communicate and research the sastra, with faith in His Divine Grace's words and position but who perhaps maintain a different understanding of Srila Prabhupad's intention than your own? You give no reason for precisely why any of these men's association is "bad" other than that you have stated it to be so! I would suggest a quick review of Bhagavad Gita 2.54! Therein Lord Krsna gives some very wonderful symptoms of "One who is situated in transcendental consciousness" . In the purport His Divine Grace states that the "most important symptom of transcendental consciousness is how the devotee speaks". Have you spoken with any of these men in years? Will you go on record as saying that HH Trivikrama Swami is no longer pursuing transcendental consciousness. Or myself or any of these men? So we are all to accept your verdict of these men JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO! Hmm.........! You also have misquoted me in an obvious attempt to utilize my very own words against me. You paraphrase me thus; "Do not make the grievous error of blowing off the history of ISKCONs dealing with women as "tripe" (the word of PraghosaACBSP). My actual statement in this regard was this; "There you have it! Unbiased and authoritative affirmation from Rabindra prabhu that this ISKCON institution has been "overwhelmingly and systematically sexist in it's dealings!" Later on in the letter he tries to support this "TRIPE" by citing some rather unpleasant historical characters and incidents. I offer to publically debate this apparent "fact" with Rabindraji, if he so desires, in the presence of anyone. This sort of statement is pandering to the ladies, misrepresentative of the actual facts and completely disregards the enormous efforts of countless leaders and devotees who have strained and strained, literally bending over backwards, to facilitate the sincere devotee women who have taken shelter of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and his loyal servants. It also does not take into account the preponderance of real evidence of Srila Prabhupada's vision for both men and as regards this discussion, most importantly women - and what is actually needed to realize it! It is certainly a legitimate discussion but one that is better served without the erroneous initial premise as stated by Rabindraji "ISKCON has been overwhelmingly and systematically SEXIST in it's dealings!"My statement does not ignore our "less than adorable history". But I do indeed take issue with Rabindra's assesment that ISKCON has been "OVERWHELMINGLY SEXIST" and to insist that that is the actual case is a blatent misrepresentation of the facts. It is very much akin to the nonsense that characters like Puranjana dish out like, "Because we have had child abuse in ISKCON - ISKCON has been a society overwhelmingly and systematically abusive to all children! " And my personal favorite exaggeration " because we have had a couple of abusers in our camp - we are delivering the MOLESTER BIJA!" All misguided attempts to paint an image of an institution actually "committed" to abuse and mayhem! In the past decade, Rabindra you were personally accused of very egregious neglect of the cows in Gita Nagari. I suspect that there was indeed some neglect. How much? I won't bother to speculate. I live in New Talavan for many years and am well aware of the difficulties involved with caring for cows in the West! So based upon some very real and very unfortunate examples of "less than adorable" cow protection in Gita Nagari, under your supervision, should we all conclude that ISKCON Pennsylvania, "Is or Was Overwhelmingly Cruel and Intentionally Neglectful of Cows"? I think you get my point. All these efforts to pretend that devotees other than some "enlightened" elite, are mal-intended in all these discussions of Dharma and Varnashrama etc etcm are extremely unhealthy. You state; "> I also want to deal with another fear, raised in several responses. That > is, the fear that those of us who favor rectifying our abuse and neglect of women want to "change the philosophy." The fact is Rabindra prabhu, many of us have never once in our entire Krsna Conscious career ABUSED OR NEGLECTED WOMEN! That was precisely because of our correct application of the philosophy! So I must submit, that you and others like you who admit to having "ABUSED AND NEGLECTED WOMEN" must carefully guard against stridently criticizing myself or any other responsible grhasta as sufferring from a "FALSE SENSE OF MASCULINITY" or being anything less than gentlemen"! I applaud your efforts to finally - once and for all - renounce your inclination to ABUSE AND NEGLECT WOMEN! That is very good. But you are going to require humility and a sincere eagerness to hear from the types of men whom you are at present so openly contemptuous of! But if you maintain the arrogant and disgusting self-deluded attitude you voice near the end of your paper - you will uttrerly and totally fail in your attempt. You write; ""Who is going to protect them from their protectors?" That is the issue.Why have protectors become exploiters and abusers? " To whom are you referring? Misguided Temple presidents who utilize women for earning money? Bogus sannyasis who wait till the husband leaves the room and then asks the wife; "So is everything all right between us? I mean our relationship. Are we OK? Should I be praying for you? I know your husband is a nice devotee - he has given you your children and he works so hard to provide for you. But he has no capacity to deliver you! Do you think he does? Are you that foolish? To whom do you offer your bhoga? Hmm.........! And then when the husband returns - he says - "Oh! I hope you don't mind me stealing your wifes devotion and loyalty. But she does need protection you know!" No - I say that since you have openly admitted ABUSING and NEGLECTING women - you should just remain humble and learn from those who actually have not exhibited a single molecule of abuse or neglect of women in their history in Krsna Consciousness! So I will excuse you this once for your childish attempt to verbally "ABUSE" myself or HH Trivikrama Swami or any of the other godbrothers and misrepresenting our sincere efforts to protect these simple but foolish women who appeared so committed to "guru apharada" under the misguided direction of men who have become habituated to ABUSING AND NEGLECTING WOMEN! I realize that " OLD HABITS DIE HARD"! But if you and HH Bhir Krsna Swami and especially Bhakti Tirtha Swami can remain humble and enthusiastic, and eager to hear from men like Jivan Mukta Prabhu or Ameyatma prabhu or myself then there is certainly hope that the two Swamis and your good self, can actually become real sannyasis and leave the "protecting of women" to responsible grhastas and can leave this business behind them once and for all! Then become fully committed to broadcasting the Glories of the Holy Name of Lord Krsna - as they are supposed to be doing - non-stop - 24 hours per day for the genuine benefit of all of us who are happily engaged in the actual "PROTECTION" of all the Lord's devotees. Sincerely in the service of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada Praghosa Das Related VNN Stories  Comment on this storyContact VNN about this storySend this story to a friend
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