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EDITORIAL February 2, 2000 VNN5388 Related VNN Stories Who's Offline? BY NISCALA DD EDITORIAL, Feb 2 (VNN) — Adri has recently claimed, publicly, that Kundali was lying about being off-line, although of course, he was unable to prove it (which wasn't exactly very nice)... Just to set the record straight, I have proof for him: that around the New Year, I was thinking that Kundali was not OK with y2k, as so many of my letters went unanswered (something he never does without good reason), but the reason, when it came, was that he was off-line. I can send you his letter as proof if you like, I think I still have it. I was thinking about this thing that Rupa Goswami never used magnetic tape, initiated women, etc.... 1. magnetic tape- did Rupa Goswami in the 1500's even have access to magnetic tapes? Why bring it up then? (He did mention yukta-vairagya though). 2. Initiating women, the brahmacarini asrama, etc.- these changes were necessary due to Srila Prabhupada being in the western countries, where vedic culture was not present, where women were seen in a completely different role to vedicly, where marriage at 12 or 13 was unheard of, where women expected independent rights from men, etc. Were the women in Rupa Goswami's area, vedic type, or western-type? So why bring it up? The guru changes details according to the circumstance he is in, in order to support the principles. He does not, however, ever change the principles, such as the need to follow sadhana and accept rules and regulations, even if it does not go down well with the circumstances. Such as introducing "no illicit sex" among hippies. He could have made Krsna Consciousness so much more popular if he didn't introduce that restriction, but it wouldn't really be Krsna Consciousness, because "no illicit sex" is a principle. The process of accepting a guru is also such a principle. One enquires, like Arjuna, from someone who knows the science of Krsna, and thus progressively has ones doubts removed- absolutely essential to spiritual progress. As this happens, repeatedly, faith naturally develops, and when one's faith is firm and unwavering, one approaches him for diksa. Your point of view is that even if one has one's doubts removed by a living spiritual master, still he cannot initiate, because Srila Prabhupada said only he can ever be diksa guru: 1. Srila Prabhupada never said that, he said that up until his departure, it is not the etiquette for the disciple to initiate. Other places, many times, he said that whoever is following properly and who knows the science of Krsna, can be spiritual master and initiate. This is supported by sastra. 2. As for that conversation in May '77, and the "final order" letter: - in the conversation, it is not clear what Srila Prabhupada is intending for after his departure: - first he says- initiation by ritvik - then he says- "disciple of my disciple", which indicates, initiations, other than by him. So, in a word, it is ambiguous, as conversations often are, many years later, in contrast to books, which are carefully prepared. And the "final order" letter can also be taken either way: - for all time, ritvik initiations, or - just until his departure. The time frame is simply not specific. (unless you place great value on the word henceforward, which Adri claims that you aren't) Now, with this, as with the conversation, consider which supports Srila Prabhupada's general instructions to us, regarding the process of accepting a spiritual master (which is undoubtedly a PRINCIPLE of Krsna Consciousness, and therefore not able to be subjected to change), i.e. submissively inquiring, having doubts removed, developing faith in the person, and when faith is firm, accepting from him, diksa? It is possible to have one's doubts removed from a book, but often, when reading Srila Prabhupada's books, doubts or questions or misunderstandings arise, and it is the guru's duty to clear them. That is why there is necessity of living guru, because doubts are unique to the individual, to his set of circumstances and to his mind. (For instance, often I hear doubts that would never have occurred to my mind). To know exactly the mind of his disciple, and to apply the teachings accordingly, and to clear his doubts, it is necessary to have a living guru, just as it is necessary to be diagnosed and treated by a physician, when one is sick, not just study books on medicine. And once one has accepted a guru, and has developed firm faith, one accepts diksa from him as part of the process, as a further step, as explained in sastra. Now, as we saw, the letter and the conversation can be taken both ways, but which supports SP's other instructions, and the sastra's version, regarding the process? It is a major change to PRINCIPLE, to not allow any more diksa gurus after Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada changed many things, but only details, due to circumstances, his being in the west, in the 20th century, and in the spirit of yukta vairagya. How is not allowing any more diksa gurus after himself only a detail??? And even if it was, how was it due to circumstances??? How is it yukta vairagya??? You will have to explain these things before you can convince me Adri is not "off-line" himself. - ys, Niscala dd. Related VNN Stories  Comment on this storyContact VNN about this storySend this story to a friend
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